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Hey there, self-hosted still refers to the open source 🙂 We are improving the ory cloud product significantly over the next few weeks. The idea is to have

kratos deploy

that works similar to

kratos serve

but runs kratos in our system - so you don't need to worry about scaling, database ops, configuration management, cookies, ... Ory Cloud will also be available for free (we introduce a free developer plan) starting in a few weeks. You get more things out of this too, for example our hosted UI for login pages etc, nice configuration options and management APIs, an adminsitrative admin UI, and also insights and metrics! 🙂

ooh, okey. So Ory cloud is nice UI wrapper over Kratos with some features like metric etc. to allow a non-programmer to work with the ory stack?

Yes, and also convenience - you don't need like ports and docker and helm and kubernetes 🙂

@full-parrot-37019 super good to have you! Are you interested in a call to discuss your requirement and see if Ory Cloud is a good fit for your engineering efforts?

We could call but I don't want to waste your time. We will probably not become paying customers (we are only interested in the selfhosted version). I don't like the idea of putting data in your cloud. I was interested by Ory because I didn't want to have sensitive user account data in cloud. Overall, I have mixed feelings about Ory cloud 😄

What’s your concern? You’re probably using things like CloudFlare, AWS, GCP, managed databases with all your sensitive data - so you already putting it in the cloud. Why is it different with Ory and is spending so much time yourself on getting everything to work & upgrade & be managed smoothly worth it? Plus, you now have a service provider that takes part of your risk (getting hacked, leaked, whatever) as they run the service. Would be great if you could explain this a bit!

You are right that we use Cloudflare and other cloud services. But we do not store emails and other personal information of our customers, clients and employees anywhere on the cloud. If I don't mind using the cloud auth stack, I'd prefer Google, Microsoft or Auth0, because these are more production ready solutions... For me, the biggest plus of Ory is that it can run on our servers. If there is a data leak, It will be my fault.

I see so your biggest concern is then not to outsource this or put this data with other accounts, but that Ory Cloud is too new / not established yet? Btw cloudflare does have access to all your traffic including emails if you use their proxy capa)

look, I cant tell customers that we store their identities somewhere in the cloud. But I can tell them, that we use cloudflare to make our servicess more accessible... I know it doesnt make sense from your perspective. But this is only our (probably exceptional) case...

Ok sorry, don’t want to annoy you 🙂 Just interested to hear the concerns people have about this. Maybe we can develop resources that explain the trade offs. I think that one day it will be an anti-pattern to NOT use ory to store sensitive customer and user information, because the risks of doing it yourself are too high compared to consuming them as a service and having insurance by that service. But we’re not there yet 😉

I am looking forward to those days 😄 Definitely some infographics would help, where the advantages and disadvantages of selfhosted and cloud versions would be compared.

ping @orange-needle-13244 @magnificent-energy-493 ^ see this thread pls

it is actually a pretty common case, and making the benefits/differences of Ory Cloud more clear is one of our main tasks, so thanks a lot @full-parrot-37019 for providing your perspective 🙏

we just had a similar convo internally as well… there seems to be a perception that ory is still immature, equated to a series-A startup offering.

We don’t really have marketing material for this, the best place to look is consistency in delivering security software 😅 That you can find in the git history only though 😕

Definetly references. Does some big corporation use Ory?

Sure, we have several on our website and GitHub README: https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/ https://www.discogs.com/ https://hootsuite.com/ and so on. Many are not listed publicly, like blues.io, imgur.com, fandom.com, wish.com, german stock exchange, sumup.com, tinkoff.ru Those come from the top of my head. We are working on creating some more marketing material around that, but it will take some time 🙂